Trailblazer Chamber temp vs set / measured temp.

[ndfan6464]

I like you have calibrated the meat probs three times. Everytime I run a test on them after calibration they are different from what the smoker is reading what "actually " is. As well as both probes are reading completely different temps.

Now I understand that no prob is going to read exactly the same. Give or take a few degrees up or down. Do to air moving around, etc etc.

I just got to the point that I use them now as just a guide along with time. Once I reach a certain time of cook and the prob temps I start using an 3 hand held instant thermometer like my Thermoworks MK4A...

 

[jeff7117]

For the "Actual" offset, the number is a percentage reduction of the overall number. So, -10 is a 10 percent reduction of 250 or 25 degrees. As for the numbers being different when turning it on and off, the sensor for the "Actual" temp is not like the meat probes. What I mean by that is that it seems it doesn't read the instant temperature like a normal probe. I assume that RecTec has some funky temp delay averaging or something to account for the temperature variation inside the chamber. The controller doesn't seem to automatically apply that math and immediately reduce the number on the display.

For what it's worth, the number they generate is supposedly created from a thermometer array of something like 25 or 30 sensors placed on the grill. They then test at 5 degree increments all through the temperature range of the smoker to determine the "Actual" number on the display. That's probably a poor summary of some complicated testing they perform but at least that's what I can remember from the call to tech support.

Based on your screenshots, the offset looks to be too low. The grill is reading a lower temp when it's actually hotter. You need to make the grill think it's hotter to bring the overall temp down. Adding to the offset, rather than reducing the offset should take care of it.

You may have to burn through some more pellets to get it dialed in but you're not too far off. I'd change the offset back to 0 to start from a clean slate and run it for an hour at 250 and then see what it says. After that hour run, just leave the grill on, hop into the settings menu and change the offset and then get back out of the settings menu and let it run for another hour to see if it's enough. No need to turn it off, just let it run.

 

[ndfan6464]

So the Actual temp is in percentage unlike the meat probs which are in degrees? (I have the Stampede JFYI) same control I believe

 

[jeff7117]

The offset for the Actual is a percentage, yes. This video from RecTec gives a little more info on it.

 

[ndfan6464]

Gotcha..interesting that its different from the probs

 

[Uncle Bob]

Gotcha..interesting that its different from the probs

The pit temp is calculated/processed by the PID while the probes aren't.

 

[Buckeye smoker]

Ok thanks all....I read the percentage thing and forgot all about it...ggrrr... That changes alot. I will do some more testing and get it as close as I can. I agree it's just a helpful guide... But I'd like it to be close. I now understand why the "actual" would change with the power switch if it's somekind of algorithm.... But why do the meat probes change?..shouldn't they read fairly close all the time once calibrated? They increase 23 & 24° let alone the 12° they change even though calibrated.

 

[ddough]

hey all, just thought I'd add some data to this thread, along with asking a few questions.

I did the 'bread test' with my Stampede this week with some surprising results.

Basically , it looks like the right side of my grill is significantly hotter than the left side.
I wonder how much this affects the cooks, and if there's anything I can do about this?

I'm not really willing to spend 200$ on a 6 probe thermometer just to calibrate this grill. I'd honestly rather return it and get a Yoder or something else that may hold consistent temps instead, although I do really love the RecTec.


I called them and they said this is basically normal, but I don't think they've seen the data you've posted here.
They also claimed the grease on the drip tray on the right side may affect things, which does seem somewhat plausible. I may redo the test with a clean tray and using something thicker like muffins.

The test was at 300 degrees, and what was so interesting is the last pic is after 2 full hours - the left side never became black, but the right side was black within the first 30 mins. This leads me to believe the temps swing by at least 20 degrees or so, but my methods are not as scientific as yours.

 

[ndfan6464]

Mmmm now I want toast.... lol

But I would have to agree with your finds that the right is hotter. It matches with how my cooks have been and I've never done a true test with my Stampede.

I would think that the right side would be or could be hotter since the drip/defuse tray sits lower on the right then on the left. Meaning closer to the fire pot then the left side.. just a thought! And probably not an educated one as well...iam just a simple man with simple thoughts hahah

 

[Buckeye smoker]

Thanks for the info @ddough .

 

[dsandersus]

@ddough I've found similar temp variations, the right side definitely runs hotter than the left (probe side). Upwards of 30 degrees. I just account for it during my cooks and adjust placement as needed.

You mention Yoder, have you researched them and do their units not have the temp swings in the chamber in similar fashion? I ask because I haven't done any research in terms of chamber temps and / or temp locations within the chamber and how they vary. I'd be curious as to what you find..

 

[jeff7117]

Nothing like the smell of burnt toast to start the day off haha. The middle row of bread all the way across in the first pic looks pretty even considering the heat source is in the center of the smoker.

I would think that the right side would be or could be hotter since the drip/defuse tray sits lower on the right then on the left. Meaning closer to the fire pot then the left side.. just a thought! And probably not an educated one as well...iam just a simple man with simple thoughts hahah

Yeah, I agree that it's probably the angle of the drip pan that is creating the higher temps on one side. The temp variation on my Trailblazer (grate level) is maybe 15 degrees from one side to the other (I've never checked the far edges tho) with the center being the sweet spot. I just shuffle things around to account for it when cooking. Thicker stuff goes on the right side, and thinner on the left.

 

[Buckeye smoker]

Ok guys This the last time I'll drive myself crazy on this. I'll just set it and get back to smoking!
But here's what I have maybe the info can help someone else or be added to the data collective...lol
So meat probes are calibrated to 32° via the ice water method .
I reset the "actual offset" to 0 (zero percent offset)
When I checked the settings to verify they were still in sync they were. (Meat probes)

My RT 700 was already set to 250° from yesterday for the 1 hour RecTec calibration test.(probes in center of grill as they instruct)
Just by hitting the power button (grill at ambient temp) my readings change. Probe B jumps up 6°
The Actual probe drops 2°, Probe A remains the same.

I perform the 1hour test and the results are this: "Actual" probe and Probe B are relatively close, but Probe A remains the 5-6° lower than Probe B.

So what I'm left with is my decision to "assume" Probe A is still in sync with the ice water calibration, and basically the center of my grill is 245° when the "actual is 250-252°.
I will lower Probe B 5-6° so it is in sync with Probe A when the unit is turned on, (even though it takes it out of ice water calibration) and lower the "Actual offset" to -2% to get it to also read 245° at the same time.
I think this is what I need to get everything as close as possible to them being calibrated with each other.
But I still feel the Probe B should not change whatsoever just by hitting the power switch. (This really bugs me) I did make a call to them and explained the situation didn't get much other than "adjust probe A up or down"... Didn't answer the "why" part of the readings change. I was trying to get across I was using the ice water as a true reading considering we know that temp should be very close to 32°
Does anyone think I'm adjusting it incorrectly?...
I'm gonna cook tonight either way...hahaha.

 

[Uncle Bob]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I just shuffle things around to account for it when cooking. Thicker stuff goes on the right side, and thinner on the left.

Halleluiah!!! Finally!!! A cooks/chefs point of view!! Attaboy Jeff.

Now, all the rest of you get off my lawn! You all know me as the lovable and cuddly Uncle Bob (listen to the delusional nut case), but after awhile this paralysis by analysis makes me wonder what we're at here. Okay, okay, vent reduced now, and not wanting to be too critical because I've had similar moments with several things in life so I can appreciate getting all wonky on any subject at any time. But this is cooking folks. It's as much art as it is skill and the equipment shouldn't be expected to do it all for you...…………….no matter what any manufacturer claims. BTW, I like that toast test better than all the probe mapping, crude but effective, real life stuff (although what's with having to take a bite out of the middle left piece about?). I'd be willing to bet you could chase a dozen other quality brands and get uneven heat distribution results, likely from two separate "identical" units from the same manufacturer. Yoder, Grilla, Pitts & Spits, ad nauseum......….you could drive yourself nuts (a shorter trip for some more than others eh Unc?) Just figure out your device, and if you ever evolve into using a griddle, uneven temp readings will really tip your canoe. Figure out your cooker, whichever one you use, and make it work for you. You control what frustrates you, don't let an inanimate object do that. Join the Jeff Zen movement...…...…........

 

[ddough]

Halleluiah!!! Finally!!! A cooks/chefs point of view!! Attaboy Jeff.

Now, all the rest of you get off my lawn! You all know me as the lovable and cuddly Uncle Bob (listen to the delusional nut case), but after awhile this paralysis by analysis makes me wonder what we're at here. Okay, okay, vent reduced now, and not wanting to be too critical because I've had similar moments with several things in life so I can appreciate getting all wonky on any subject at any time. But this is cooking folks. It's as much art as it is skill and the equipment shouldn't be expected to do it all for you...…………….no matter what any manufacturer claims. BTW, I like that toast test better than all the probe mapping, crude but effective, real life stuff (although what's with having to take a bite out of the middle left piece about?). I'd be willing to bet you could chase a dozen other quality brands and get uneven heat distribution results, likely from two separate "identical" units from the same manufacturer. Yoder, Grilla, Pitts & Spits, ad nauseum......….you could drive yourself nuts (a shorter trip for some more than others eh Unc?) Just figure out your device, and if you ever evolve into using a griddle, uneven temp readings will really tip your canoe. Figure out your cooker, whichever one you use, and make it work for you. You control what frustrates you, don't let an inanimate object do that. Join the Jeff Zen movement...…...…........

after staring at this damned smokey toast for over an hour, and being starving, I couldn't resist.

I agree that it's easy to overanalyze anything, but in this case, I am new to smoking, and my first two briskets also came out dry - albeit they were overtrimmed (missing most of the fat cap by the butcher).

I also have a 700$ A5 Wagyu brisket that me and 10 of my buddies all threw in on, and I plan on cooking for an "end of summer" party after I start nailing regular briskets with my eyes closed. For cooks like this, I wwant to reallllly be precise. I think for the A5, I'll probably rotate it every hour.

When you guys cook brisket, do you rotate it while it's cooking to avoid one spot being overcooked?
What about for other "long" meats such as racks of ribs?

What if I layed out a brisket vertically across the grates (keeping it on the left side, back to front), so it only stayed on that left side of the grill ? Would that be a reasonable idea, to keep it out of the "hot spots"? Or does laying it horizontally (across the grates, left to right) help with airflow or something?

thanks for your help!

 

[jeff7117]

Figure out your cooker, whichever one you use, and make it work for you. You control what frustrates you, don't let an inanimate object do that. Join the Jeff Zen movement...…...…........

I hear ya Uncle Bob, and you're right on the money. Cooking surface is what it is and variations should be expected. The only issue I really ever had with this whole pellet smoker endeavor was chamber temp consistency. RecTec claimed that:

• Smart Grill Technology™ Controller • Proprietary PID algorithm maintains temperature precisely

To me, precise temps means really close or right on what you have it set at. 220 is 220ish not 350ish. What I'm getting often is 50-100 degree swings in temp that take an hour or more to stabilize back to normal. That didn't seem like precision to me and while it may be a quirk of these, it's advertised as a grill that maintains set temp. Hell, they even have 5 degree increments on the controller, so it really should stay somewhere close to the temp if it's gonna be that precise.

Looking back through some of the previous threads, I saw others with similar issues but never any sort of resolution and lots of frustration with the temp swings. I know to expect that now, at least for the summer, but running these tests was the only way to actually see it happening and record it.

Now, to get back to cooking, gonna try a brisket hopefully next week, and maybe it won't be undercooked after 12 hours this time...

 

[Buckeye smoker]

Exactly @jeff7117 .... Those temp differences are the reasons people ask why it took longer than expected, or the difference in your buddies saying "not bad" vs. "that was Fu#$&+g awesome!"... I still love my grill, but just want it to run the best and as accurately as it can.
I'll post tonight's dinner in another thread*

 

[ddough]

50 degree temp swings sound insane. I wonder if this is more of a Trailblazer issue? The data someone else posted in the previous page of the Bull made the Bull seem pretty damn accurate, with average temps being close to eachother.

I wonder how the Stampede is? These kinds of things make me wonder if I made the right decision with the Stampede.

Any idea on how I can do a precise measurement like you guys without having to buy one of those crazy 6 probe 200$ thermometers?

Maybe get an oven thermometer and move it around the chamber or something?

Or maybe I need to use muffins instead of bread, with a cleaned out drip tray this time? lol

 

[Uncle Bob]

Okay, so for way out temp differentials I'll concede that folks may be onto a problem with the hardware.....……….it does happen. @ddough I have a Stampede and don't believe I have wild swings in temp. I've done some minor checking (nothing like the thorough mapping others have done here lately) with my Thermoworks Smoke thermometer to gauge pit temp and meat temps. While the numbers weren't exactly the same they were within single digits which I consider margin of error stuff. I realize the temp is different at different locations on the grate, but my indicated pit temp runs pretty consistent with variations only occurring when I have the lid opened for "longer" periods such as basting or spritzing. If I open the lid for a visual check or to do a probe it seldom varies more than a degree if at all. As for meat temp, I've learned to trust probing more than a target end temp such as 203. I find that doing a probe check gives me a juicier product and regularly with a finish temp (before carryover) below 200 but above 193 for the long cook stuff. I can understand the worry about a very pricey piece of wagyu, and would suggest using some similar sized but less costly chunks as experience builders to give the confidence/experience necessary to avoid ruining a pricey cut.

 

[dsandersus]

So... I saw the following reply to a temp probe post and about spit out my coffee and thought I’d share on this chain..

Imagine a photo of a hot dog with a dozen meat probes in it in various locations. Then read on.

Guys, one end of my weiner is 3 degrees higher than the other. I'm going for 185.25 internal, but it stalled at 161.75 then came out of it unevenly. I wrapped in pink butcher paper (white is for idiots), then a double layer of foil, and I've been unwrapping to spritz with a mix of 27% water, 6.5% apple cider vinegar, 43% apple juice, and 23.5% Worcestershire (which I also smoke before I actually use). I'm also mopping it with the same mix every 2 degrees, but now Lord Tasty Von Smokington III, esq. (that's my grill's name) isn't holding temperature, and is sitting at 223 degrees rather than my set 225 degrees. I think something might be wrong, I'll call RecTec in the morning to see about a warranty claim.

I do want it done in the next 3 minutes, and didn't plan appropriately, so I'm just going to jack up the temp to 700 degrees to finish it off.

Once it's done, I'll be sure to cut it down the middle, squeeze all the juice out for a slow-mo video, and post if for everyone to see.