Bull Okay Third Time Smoking Ribs and still......

[dmatthews]

Need some help here. We’ve smoked St. Louis ribs using the 3-2-1 recipe now for the third time. Seem to get dry meat on the ends, and the “top” (top layer) of the rib is a little dry and stringy/tough. Even cut back on cook time to 2-2-45 minutes and same outcome. Nice smoke ring, not burned but same outcome. Once you get past the end ribs and through the top layer of meat, they’re pretty tasty, but disappointed in general with outcome.

 

[ken g]

What temp are you cooking at? I'm not sure what the 2-2-45 on cook time is referring to.

 

[dmatthews]

What temp are you cooking at? I'm not sure what the 2-2-45 on cook time is referring to.

Cooking at 250 degrees like the recipe on the Rec Tec website suggests. It’s one of the posted recipes, but it’s actually 3-2-1 250 degrees the entire cook time ( 3 hours on the grill with just a rub you put on several hours before, then 2 hours wrapped tightly in foil with honey, brown sugar, butter and apple cider). Then 1 more hour out of the foil. After we got partially dry ribs the second time, today we shortened the time from 3-2-1 to 2-2-45 minutes...better, but still a little dry on ends of the rack and the very top (if that makes any sense) layer of the meat - a little hard and stringy.

 

[ken g]

Cooking at 250 degrees like the recipe on the Rec Tec website suggests. It’s one of the posted recipes, but it’s actually 3-2-1 250 degrees the entire cook time ( 3 hours on the grill with just a rub you put on several hours before, then 2 hours wrapped tightly in foil with honey, brown sugar, butter and apple cider). Then 1 more hour out of the foil. After we got partially dry ribs the second time, today we shortened the time from 3-2-1 to 2-2-45 minutes...better, but still a little dry on ends of the rack and the very top (if that makes any sense) layer of the meat - a little hard and stringy.

I've never used that recipe. I smoke ribs low and slow at 225. So if meat is dried out and tough, I would lower the cook temp and cook longer if needed. They typically are not done unless they pass the bend test. Pick up rack in the middle with some tongs. Give them a gentle bounce. If the bark cracks in multiple areas, they are done. Typically, they need minimum of 6 hours. I guess foil wrapping them is a personal preference. I prefer not to and wait them out at 225 degrees pit temp.

 

[pbison]

Cooking at 250 degrees like the recipe on the Rec Tec website suggests. It’s one of the posted recipes, but it’s actually 3-2-1 250 degrees the entire cook time ( 3 hours on the grill with just a rub you put on several hours before, then 2 hours wrapped tightly in foil with honey, brown sugar, butter and apple cider). Then 1 more hour out of the foil. After we got partially dry ribs the second time, today we shortened the time from 3-2-1 to 2-2-45 minutes...better, but still a little dry on ends of the rack and the very top (if that makes any sense) layer of the meat - a little hard and stringy.

I'm still new at this, but I've seen temps all over the place on 3-2-1 recipes. Most seem to say 225, but so far I've had the best luck at 235-240.

 

[dmatthews]

I've never used that recipe. I smoke ribs low and slow at 225. So if meat is dried out and tough, I would lower the cook temp and cook longer if needed. They typically are not done unless they pass the bend test. Pick up rack in the middle with some tongs. Give them a gentle bounce. If the bark cracks in multiple areas, they are done. Typically, they need minimum of 6 hours. I guess foil wrapping them is a personal preference. I prefer not to and wait them out at 225 degrees pit temp.

Thanks for the suggestion on the reduced cook temp. It’s odd because the ribs are falling off the bone, and I’ve done the bend test so they’re definitely done, even at the reduced cook time today. Maybe we should check them more often? Wow, 6 hours? do you use just a dry rub and then baste them? How do you keep the outside of the meat from drying out? Would appreciate any suggestions or referral to some good recipes. I know it takes practice, but I figure after 3 times we’re doing something wrong.

 

[Buckeye smoker]

You may be doing everything right, but what was the internal meat temp?...you want to shoot for 190° internal temp (in general) and thicker or thinner ribs will change the amount of time it takes.

 

[dmatthews]

You may be doing everything right, but what was the internal meat temp?...you want to shoot for 190° internal temp (in general) and thicker or thinner ribs will change the amount of time it takes.

We didn’t take an internal temp (the recipe didn’t call for that) and I thought, new to rib cooking in general, the key was low and slow. It would have been hard to check during the 2 hours wrapped in foil. The ribs we’ve been using are the St.Louis style, and supposed to be more meaty than other ribs, but in my opinion still a fairly thin layer of meat. Sounds like from the replies so far, our cook temp is too high. I appreciate your information on an internal cook temp. How often do you check it? As I mentioned before, any tried and true recipes would be greatly appreciated. I’ve made spatchcock chicken, with great results, but the rib attempts has gotten to be very frustrating. Thanks

 

[Uncle Bob]

You may not appreciate what I'm about to write, but in time, if you keep at it, it might make more sense. Cooking isn't formulaic, there's some art to it. And some of us are just fussy enough that no cook is ever "perfect", but hopefully better. On the plus side, unless you really ruin the food, you get to eat your "mistakes", Oh, and sometimes your guests don't know enough to know why you're not happy about the outcome and they are.

What you've described reads to me like you over cooked them, particularly the "dry" comment. Even well prepared ribs are going to be different in the center from the ends just because of the physics of it, two exposed surfaces as opposed to three on the ends. Then there's the variance in use/understanding of terms. When you say "fall off the bone"; do you mean literally? For instance, when the finished rack is on the cutting board before cutting, can you grab the end of one of the bones, give a little twist, and pull a meatless bone out? If so, or close, another sign of overcooked. Personally, I don't like actual "fall off the bone" done. I like it tender, moist, and once I sink the teeth in it yields easily and only needs a very mild tug to pull the meat away. Some call that "competition style", whatever.

I'm not sure why you believe St. Louis cut is meatier. Since it's a standard rack of ribs that has been trimmed of the flap meat, the top bone/meat strip, and squared up ends it would more likely be considered less meaty. However, that's not the problem. Also, the amount of meat on a rack is somewhat dependent on how the processing plant/butcher chooses to trim. Some will leave more of the adjoining meat cut on the rib, some will trim back for uniformity. If this is unfamiliar to you it might be a good learning tool to buy two racks, one St. Louis and one untrimmed (normal?) and examine the differences. The untrimmed one might take a bit longer to cook to desired results because there's more mass, but again, it will depend on the hunk of meat and conditions.

I also don't believe you have a temperature problem. I've cooked racks of ribs anywhere from 225 to 350, at various temps in between. I've done them nekkid and wrapped, and had good results either way, though the nekkid are a bit more "barky". 3-2-1 is a guide, not an absolute, a good one, but not inflexible. The higher the temp the faster the cook. BTW, follow Buckeye's advice about using a good thermometer, if for no other reason than to expand your knowledge. You'll be surprised at what you see I suspect.

You didn't mention if you used a rub and which kind. Sauce or no? Those each play into it as well. Personally I think a dry brine for 12-24 hours before the cook with a mild level of salt in the rub helps with a better outcome. Others have had a different experience. If I sauce it's usually the last 15-30 minutes depending on temp, don't want to burn the sugars in the sauce. One more thought, you might want to change the orientation of your rack on the grate as an experiment. If you've been laying it down, center grate, length side to side, rotate it 90 degrees to expose it to a different air flow. Or if horizontal, pull it more toward the front of the grate since a 590 flows air toward the back. Make sure if you've covered the drip pan with foil that you don't have any overhang of the foil from the edges as that will mess up the air flow characteristics. If you really want to explore those variables, get a quality thermometer with an air temp probe and a grate clip to suspend it by and place the probe at various locations on the grate while the cooker is running and see what temps the meat is subjected to at various locations.

Keep at it, learn the art, enjoy the ride...………...and the meal.

 

[BretM]

Thanks for the suggestion on the reduced cook temp. It’s odd because the ribs are falling off the bone, and I’ve done the bend test so they’re definitely done, even at the reduced cook time today. Maybe we should check them more often? Wow, 6 hours? do you use just a dry rub and then baste them? How do you keep the outside of the meat from drying out? Would appreciate any suggestions or referral to some good recipes. I know it takes practice, but I figure after 3 times we’re doing something wrong.

If they are "falling off the bone", then they are overdone.

 

[cbdel]

you could be using to much cider, nd are steaming them.

 

[ken g]

@ dMatthews You asked: How do you keep the outside of the meat from drying out?

I am wondering if you are confusing the "bark" for dried out meat? Bark is a tasty natural occurrence when you apply various rubs and then smoke the meat for several hours. It can be mistaken for dried out meat.

Uncle Bob is spot on about the meat being drier out on the ends of the rack. Again a natural occurrence when cooking ribs.

I dry brine my ribs overnight with Kosher salt. About 2-3 hours prior to beginning to cook, I add the rub and back into the refrigerator. Then cook at 225 until they pass the bend test. Rack below was done that way on Saturday.

Keep trying. You will find your niche with enough practice.

 

[cookingjnj]

I am also not much of a 3-2-1 guy anymore. I did try that method as a guide for a while, but could never seem to get to a place where the ribs were not overdone, and falling off the bone too much. Now I cook my ribs nekkid, as some would say, with just a rub added (sometimes the night before, and sometimes while the pit is heating up) at a temp between 225 and 235. I let them go until the bend test shows break in the bark and between the ribs. Pull, sauce and back on the pit for about 30 minutes to set the sauce on the ribs. Lately these have come out great, with good smoke flavor and still moist with a good chew. Most cooks I also spritz the ribs with a mixture of apple juice and apple cider vinegar every 45 minutes or so for the first 3-4 hours.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

You may not appreciate what I'm about to write, but in time, if you keep at it, it might make more sense. Cooking isn't formulaic, there's some art to it. And some of us are just fussy enough that no cook is ever "perfect", but hopefully better. On the plus side, unless you really ruin the food, you get to eat your "mistakes", Oh, and sometimes your guests don't know enough to know why you're not happy about the outcome and they are.

What you've described reads to me like you over cooked them, particularly the "dry" comment. Even well prepared ribs are going to be different in the center from the ends just because of the physics of it, two exposed surfaces as opposed to three on the ends. Then there's the variance in use/understanding of terms. When you say "fall off the bone"; do you mean literally? For instance, when the finished rack is on the cutting board before cutting, can you grab the end of one of the bones, give a little twist, and pull a meatless bone out? If so, or close, another sign of overcooked. Personally, I don't like actual "fall off the bone" done. I like it tender, moist, and once I sink the teeth in it yields easily and only needs a very mild tug to pull the meat away. Some call that "competition style", whatever.

I'm not sure why you believe St. Louis cut is meatier. Since it's a standard rack of ribs that has been trimmed of the flap meat, the top bone/meat strip, and squared up ends it would more likely be considered less meaty. However, that's not the problem. Also, the amount of meat on a rack is somewhat dependent on how the processing plant/butcher chooses to trim. Some will leave more of the adjoining meat cut on the rib, some will trim back for uniformity. If this is unfamiliar to you it might be a good learning tool to buy two racks, one St. Louis and one untrimmed (normal?) and examine the differences. The untrimmed one might take a bit longer to cook to desired results because there's more mass, but again, it will depend on the hunk of meat and conditions.

I also don't believe you have a temperature problem. I've cooked racks of ribs anywhere from 225 to 350, at various temps in between. I've done them nekkid and wrapped, and had good results either way, though the nekkid are a bit more "barky". 3-2-1 is a guide, not an absolute, a good one, but not inflexible. The higher the temp the faster the cook. BTW, follow Buckeye's advice about using a good thermometer, if for no other reason than to expand your knowledge. You'll be surprised at what you see I suspect.

You didn't mention if you used a rub and which kind. Sauce or no? Those each play into it as well. Personally I think a dry brine for 12-24 hours before the cook with a mild level of salt in the rub helps with a better outcome. Others have had a different experience. If I sauce it's usually the last 15-30 minutes depending on temp, don't want to burn the sugars in the sauce. One more thought, you might want to change the orientation of your rack on the grate as an experiment. If you've been laying it down, center grate, length side to side, rotate it 90 degrees to expose it to a different air flow. Or if horizontal, pull it more toward the front of the grate since a 590 flows air toward the back. Make sure if you've covered the drip pan with foil that you don't have any overhang of the foil from the edges as that will mess up the air flow characteristics. If you really want to explore those variables, get a quality thermometer with an air temp probe and a grate clip to suspend it by and place the probe at various locations on the grate while the cooker is running and see what temps the meat is subjected to at various locations.

Keep at it, learn the art, enjoy the ride...………...and the meal.

I agree with all of the above. Especially the "fall off the bone" position, as I too dislike "fall off the bone" ribs, and consider them to be overcooked. I call them "crockpot" ribs, as this is the sort of result one would expect from out of a crockpot. Stew meat.

I'd only add a couple of things. Dry usually means overcooked, tough undercooked. However there are caveats to that too in that "fall off the bone" ribs are indeed overcooked, they aren't always dry.

St Louis cut ribs, especially a slab which has been "squared up", at least in my "hands", cook more evenly than baby backs and full spares and have just enough meat on them for my taste. Ribs from the center of the rack are usually the better ribs, and the ones typically used in competitions. I always serve from the center of the rack and work my way outward if I'm feeding guests. The ends of the racks are used for leftovers.

To my taste, and many others, the perfectly cooked rib is tender, and a bite through the meat should leave teeth marks and nearly clean the bone with a little tug back. This will usually happen at around 198° internal temperature.

.

 

[Cyendrey]

Need some help here. We’ve smoked St. Louis ribs using the 3-2-1 recipe now for the third time. Seem to get dry meat on the ends, and the “top” (top layer) of the rib is a little dry and stringy/tough. Even cut back on cook time to 2-2-45 minutes and same outcome. Nice smoke ring, not burned but same outcome. Once you get past the end ribs and through the top layer of meat, they’re pretty tasty, but disappointed in general with outcome.

I had the same experience. I’m going to go back to no wrap, like I do on my Kamado.

I have to keep in mind that wrapping generally accelarates the cooking process for meat on smoker, that is why I can smoke a 11 lb pork but in 8 hours instead of 12. After my unsuccessful 3-2-1 I realized that this method was requiring more cook time than my normal unwrapped approach on the Kamado. Both were cooked at 250 dgf. So I’m going to try unwrapped, more normal method, with my normal 3.5-4 hr cook time expectation - which has ALWAYS resulted in perfect ribs off the Kamado. We’ll see what happens.

From now on I’m saving the wrap for meats that require really long smoke times like brisket and pork buts...

 

[dmatthews]

I had the same experience. I’m going to go back to no wrap, like I do on my Kamado.

I have to keep in mind that wrapping generally accelarates the cooking process for meat on smoker, that is why I can smoke a 11 lb pork but in 8 hours instead of 12. After my unsuccessful 3-2-1 I realized that this method was requiring more cook time than my normal unwrapped approach on the Kamado. Both were cooked at 250 dgf. So I’m going to try unwrapped, more normal method, with my normal 3.5-4 hr cook time expectation - which has ALWAYS resulted in perfect ribs off the Kamado. We’ll see what happens.

From now on I’m saving the wrap for meats that require really long smoke times like brisket and pork buts...

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you use St. Louis style ribs, and do you use just a dry rub or sauce too? One more question....do you flip sides while smoking? Sorry for all the questions, but very new to smoking and cooking ribs in general!

 

[Macguy]

For me, I do not move the ribs once positioned in Bull. I also like Baby Backs over SLR but both are very tasty. I use dry brine overnight, rub for a few hours, spritz them every hour or so with apple juice, and sauce the last 20 minutes.

 

[ifican]

Alot of good info here and some not so much or lets say a bit misleading. As many i prefer St Louis ribs and i also find them meatier. One of the initial comments the op made about bend test was still good at lower temps with his 3-2-1 method also tells me they were cooked to long. As bob mentioned i have done ribs at all sorta temps with great results, that just come with practice, but i have never done any specific time method. They are done when they are done.

Ribs can be made to fall off the bone and still be moist and juicy by foil wrapping which in essence steams them. Another not my style, if i wrap anything its in butcher paper but thats even rare. Like how we are born, nekkid is best for our likes. Something else to consider, with a great insta read thermometer or needle probe, st louis have enough flesh you can monitor temps and start to get a good understanding of where on the scale a finished rack of ribs falls. I bet you will find a temp that you like that is consistent and easy to get to. Once you are there you can start watching and observing everything else that tells you the ribs are done to your liking. Enjoy the journey.

 

[dmatthews]

Alot of good info here and some not so much or lets say a bit misleading. As many i prefer St Louis ribs and i also find them meatier. One of the initial comments the op made about bend test was still good at lower temps with his 3-2-1 method also tells me they were cooked to long. As bob mentioned i have done ribs at all sorta temps with great results, that just come with practice, but i have never done any specific time method. They are done when they are done.

Ribs can be made to fall off the bone and still be moist and juicy by foil wrapping which in essence steams them. Another not my style, if i wrap anything its in butcher paper but thats even rare. Like how we are born, nekkid is best for our likes. Something else to consider, with a great insta read thermometer or needle probe, st louis have enough flesh you can monitor temps and start to get a good understanding of where on the scale a finished rack of ribs falls. I bet you will find a temp that you like that is consistent and easy to get to. Once you are there you can start watching and observing everything else that tells you the ribs are done to your liking. Enjoy the journey.

Thanks for the helpful information. A few previous responses made mention of using an instant read thermometer (which I have), but with the Bull, we have temp probes. Would they not work as well?

 

[Buckeye smoker]

Thanks for the helpful information. A few previous responses made mention of using an instant read thermometer (which I have), but with the Bull, we have temp probes. Would they not work as well?

Yes they do work, and be sure to check out one of the sync methods posted here for getting all three of your probes as close to" in sync" with each other as possible... However, even then, it's a good choice to have a known accurate instant check ready for backup and confirmation on meat temps... it'll be worth your time.